Engine Swap or Claim

I have had a very large number of question about this topic. What is the opinion of the mini dwarf division as to some type of rule like this to help keep the motors in check? Or other ideas for that matter. Thanks Scott

edit

technically Phillips did go to tech, but he missed and went to his pits first-- you gotta go straight to tech.

I highly doubt they swapped engines real fast during that time. And he has been in tech almost every week.

Scott: I like the idea-- but im not a parent/owner.

yeah i say swap them motors. the parents shouldnt have a problem with it as long as there running the no touch sealed honda motor like there suppose to

ALL FOR WHAT EVERYONE CAN DECIDE ON. MOTER SWAP FOR MINIMAL FEE, $50 SOUNDS GOOD, ALTHOUGH I THINK MOST PEPLE ARE LEGAL. HOW ABOUT A TROPHY FOR TOP 3, AND SOMETHING ELSE FOR ALL THE OTHER KIDS? MAYBE A TICKET FOR A SODA OR CANDY AT THE SNACK STAND. iLL PAY A COUPLE EXTRA BUCKS AT THE BACK GATE IF NEED BE, BUT IT MEANS ALOT TO THE KIDS, SOMETIMES WE FORGET AS ADULTS. THAT THE LIL STUFF MEANS ALOT TO THEM!

RULES ARE RULES BUT YOU NEED TO ENFORCE THEM THATS THE PROBLEM but whatever Scott decides then thats what it will be. I think 50 dollars is way cheap for an engine when they cost any where from 400 to 700 dolllars depending on how you want it. ''IF ANYTHING'' I see an engine swap with some rules behind it. Racer01 I agree with you 100% about the kids they all need to get something in return for putting on a good show they deserve it.


Jason

I AGREE ALL THE KIDS SHOULD GET A LITTLE SOMETHING. IT WOULDNT COST SCOTT MUCH TO GIVE THEM A SODA OR A HOT DOG OR SOMETHING SINCE THE PARENTS R PAYING TO GET IN FOR WAY MORE THEN WHAT IT COST FOR THAT LITTLE THING. AND THE KIDS BRING THERE FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO THE STANDS MAKING SCOTT MORE MONEY.

ALSO I THINK THE WINNERS SHOULD GET A GIFT CERTIFICATE OR SOMETHING OTHER THAN A TROPHY SO THEY CAN GO SHOPPING AT TOYS R US OR SOMETHING FOR THERE ACHIEVEMENTS

WOW what a topic. First I have 50.00 set aside for the next race because it has become clear that we as parents need to put something together for the kids to enjoy the wins and or just participation in the event (EACH RACE). Ribbons, medals ect..... Heck it is such an open area I say we plan a few potlucks for the kids, I'm sure somebody has a nice BBQ we can use? Now as for claim/swap, I say if you have a question about the motor feel free to tell the person you want to pull it, then give it to a mutually agreed upon person to have it broke down for inspection and you can pay the fee for the inspection.
Basically put your money where your mouth is. NOT JUST MY OPINION

PITMOM wrote:

WOW what a topic. First I have 50.00 set aside for the next race because it has become clear that we as parents need to put something together for the kids to enjoy the wins and or just participation in the event (EACH RACE). Ribbons, medals ect..... Heck it is such an open area I say we plan a few potlucks for the kids, I'm sure somebody has a nice BBQ we can use? Now as for claim/swap, I say if you have a question about the motor feel free to tell the person you want to pull it, then give it to a mutually agreed upon person to have it broke down for inspection and you can pay the fee for the inspection.
Basically put your money where your mouth is. NOT JUST MY OPINION

no this is retarded. parents are not going to say ok heres my motor. well i guess you would but im sure your the only 1 lol

I like the swap. The track should just dictate random swaps from time to time. Like top three swap with bottom 3 etc. The track should make sure the bottom 3 engines are sound and working properly. If you have parents doing a claim, there will be arguments in the pits in front of the kids. No one should care about the swap that is running a real sealed motor.

I agree with the award deal. Sunnie walked around with her award the whole week after he race. With the increase in pit prices, it would seem that half of the pit pass money would cover some kind of award.

Going off Billy's idea-- maybe lotto draw of those three listed--

Top 3 finishes

Last 3 finishers (not DNFs)

lotto draw who swaps with who.

Its the only way to patrol people lagging back just to get a swap-- i know its hard to get kids to do that-- but if someone has an engine going back it might not be hard to make the kid go just a bit slower so he ends up near the back.

My vote would be for ENGINE CLAIM - ONLY BS Officials can CLAIM an engine and tear it down to investigate for any rules violations.
This is NOT clearly stated in the BS Mini Dwarf Rules. It is mentioned in other track Mini Dwarf rules - VRA reserves the right to claim ANY engine during or after the race night http://www.venturaraceway.com/pdf/rules/2009%20Mini%20Dwarf%20Rules.pdf

OK, now I asked for BS to enforce the ENGINE CLAIM RULE. There needs to be some set of guidelines/rules to this claiming system.
1. When will BS do an engine claim (after the first 3 races, after every race, after there are 3 parent complaints, after the same car wins every week)?
2. When is there is "REASONABLE DOUBT" that someone's engine is ILLEGAL (just beacuse they win every week is that RD or just because we don't like them)?
3. Where will the engine be inspected (at tech, at the official BS engine builders shop, at some other guys shop)?
4. Who is going to pay for the inspection - mechanics labor & time (BS, the engine owner, the 3 parents that complained)
5. Who is going to pay for the engine rebuild - new gaskets, new oil, new BS engine seal (BS, the engine owner, the 3 parents that complained)?
6. Will the inspected & re-built engine be given back in time for the next Mini Dwarf race (what if it is late and they can't race)?
7. How will the inspection results be announced to the Mini Dwarf division (on the board - Car #25 engine - LEGAL)
8. If the engine is ILLEGAL - What are the penalties (1st offense - DQ'd for three races, 2nd offense - DQ'd for season)

I don't think a ENGINE SWAP system would be best for our divison because:
1. How many races did the motor I just get have on it (my engine is 1 1/2 years old - what if I get a newer engine and someone gets my old engine and then they go slower)?
2. Did the previous owners do regular maintenance (Change oil regularly, Is there abusive wear on the engine)
3. Did they you use a GOOD air filter - and do they clean the air filter? Is the engine even cleaned regularly?
4. Have they had to replace any parts before on the engine? Am I getting a lemon engine?
5. Are they getting my k&n air filter, adjustable jet, tuned pipe & silencer or just the stock block?

This ENGINE SWAP option opens up a can of worms with lots of questonis that need to be answered before I would consider this option.

Thank you Scott for asking our Division what we think and hope we can give you good feedback.
Ric Garofalo
Mini #25

Aside from the actual labor of swapping motors...why would anyone disagree with some sort of swap rule? If everyone is on a spec motor the swap rule is a no-brainer imo. It could be as simple as winner exchanges with last finisher on lead lap or you could draw finishing positions that would swap. I think the winner should be one swapping tho. Something like this could also help the class grow more imo.

I thought about it and I think this hole engine claim and engine swap is FLIPPEN RETARDED. If you think someone is cheating than you should be able to put up money to have that motor tore down if they are legal they keep the money to put there motor back together but if they are illegal they are DQ and you get your money back!

jason

BannisterRacing wrote:

I thought about it and I think this hole engine claim and engine swap is FLIPPEN RETARDED. If you think someone is cheating than you should be able to put up money to have that motor tore down if they are legal they keep the money to put there motor back together but if they are illegal they are DQ and you get your money back!

jason

Why is it retarded? Aside from the labor and it being "flippen retarded" why would you disagree with a motor swap rule. "It's flippen retarded" isn't a valid argument. If everyone has a spec motor what's the big deal? Spending time and money to have a motor tore down and inspected makes far less sense in my opinion. I don't think the kids should be subject to a "protest rule". It should be part of the rules, you win, you get a new motor. Motors could be swapped with the promoter. The track has one or two new ones to start, winner of the first race or two gets a brand new motor and the track receives theirs. Then the track can just keep circulating the motors. This way you are not actually exchanging motors with another party, you are only exchanging with the track. Then if you do have to exchange, you either get a brand new, or race winning motor in return. I don't see anything FLIPPEN RETARDED about that?

lmao are you kiding me ... you realy think that the track is going to give the winners a new motor now thats FLIPPEN RETARDED . oh by the way the problem has been solved thanks for the out of state concern.

jason

I would not like the fact of having my childs brand new motor swapped with another motor that may have "who knows" how much wear and tear. It would be unfair to who ever forked the money out for a new motor for the season to have it swapped out for a who knows how much older motor.

I like to idea of having a fee to have a motor checked out. You pay the fee, if motor is found to be illegal you get your money back. If found to be legal, the car getting inspected gets the money and in both cases the official tearing down the motor gets a portion of the fee for their time.

Chad11 wrote:

Aside from the actual labor of swapping motors...why would anyone disagree with some sort of swap rule? If everyone is on a spec motor the swap rule is a no-brainer imo.

Everyone is "ON" the SPEC ENGINE, do they mess with the seal they might - who knows. That is for the officials to determine.
The reasons I can think that a ENGINE SWAP would not be a good idea are stated above in my earlier "book" post lol (under RIC). Reasons 1-5 are clearly stated why it would not be a good idea. I am sure others have even more legitamite reasons, these are just what I could think of the other day.

Chad11 wrote:

I don't think the kids should be subject to a "protest rule"

I agree with you 50% on this one - I don't think it should be a "protest" and the kids put in the middle of a parental dispute. (which is the case most of the time)
Maybe those "concerned" parents could put up their money and post an "official inquiry" then after 1, 2 or 3 "inquiries" the officials might have enough reasonable doubt to look into investigating the car or engine. If a BS officials comes to claim your engine - Then, BS officials think they have a reasonable doubt or they might have gotten a few "official inqiries". You might not ever know which one it was - until you get the "concerned" parents money $$$ after your motor is LEGAL.
Now, if they refuse to let BS officials claim the motor, then DQ them for the entire season.

Ric
Mini Dwarf #25

Thank you for all the input. We will NOT be doing a claim. I have had some good input for other tech ideas that we will be putting in place soon. Thanks Scott

bakoboss wrote:

Thank you for all the input. We will NOT be doing a claim. I have had some good input for other tech ideas that we will be putting in place soon. Thanks Scott

what are the new ideas?

get sum 1 that nows about these motors to be the head minidwarf tech official nothing against big mikke. and its not very hard to tear one of these motors down. the tear the brigs motor down at plaza every week and give them back the same night.. tear down after 2nd top 3

where can i buy a mini dwarf motor

You can get a motor from the Bakersfield Speedway or Auto Pro Racing Engines @805-705-6372

I'm with the pay for inspection crowd. A racer's equipment should stay with the racer. Their integrity is on the line. Swapping motors just shifts illegal motors around. Paying for inspection allows for unsatisfied people to get direct satisfaction.
Kendall and I will see you all on the 5th I think. Something new for us. We hope to enjoy ourselves with father son timeand the folks at Bakersfield speedway.

ok well look, i know this is a month or so late but i just thought id add something to it. along with the fact that sapping motors would be a good or a bad idea. its just like before scott and them took over the track. or for that fact any division could have the motor tore down and inspected. but i highly disagree with the claim and tear down although ur thoughts have been made up.

and the thing about giveing the kids something. i used to coach little league foot ball. if u have a mvp or something of the game not only does that kid get something but the whole team does. i think the hot dog and soda thing is a good idea cause after they get done with there main event they can go up and get something to eat i am sure they are hungry afterwards.

but there is my thought....


sorry its so late lol